Legal assistance
What legal assistance and from whom can and should a foreign woman who has given birth in Brazil expect to
receive legal assistance with her and her newborn's paperwork in Brazil?
How and in what ways can our company help with these documents?
How do BabyInBrazil
lawyers help foreign women in gathering documents to travel to Brazil?
When planning to have a child in Brazil, it is important to prepare the right documents to leave your country and
go
through customs formalities. BabyInBrazil lawyers provide professional assistance to make this
process smooth and stress-free.
What documents do I need to travel to Brazil?
- Make sure your passport is valid for at least six months from the date of entry.
- Visa (if required). The lawyers will check whether you need a visa depending on your
nationality
and help you to apply for one.
- Medical Records:
- A doctor's note about your health status and gestational age.
- Health insurance to cover the costs of childbirth and the postpartum period.
- Tickets and proof of accommodation. You will need:
- Return ticket or proof of intent to leave the country.
- Booking a hotel or vacation rental in Brazil.
- Financial Documents. Documents proving financial solvency to stay in the country.
- Document translations. If you plan to use your documents in Brazil (marriage certificates,
medical certificates), they may need to be translated into Portuguese and certified.
If documents and translations done in your country are not accepted in Brazil, it is due to different legal
requirements. Brazil has strict regulations regarding the certification and translation of documents for legal use.
Here's how you can solve this problem:
What you need to know about translations and attestations for Brazil
1. Translations must be done by sworn translators (Tradutor Juramentado). Translations performed
by
translators in your country may not be acceptable if they are not accredited in Brazil. Brazil requires that the
translation be done by an official sworn translator registered with the Justice.
2. Hague Convention Apostille. Documents from your country must be apostilled at a body
authorized by the Hague Convention to be valid abroad, including Brazil. The apostille confirms the
authenticity
of the document, but the translation still needs to be done in Brazil.
3. Notarization in Brazil. Even if your document is notarized in another country, notaries in
Brazil
may require it to be re-certified to prove its validity in Brazil.
4. How to proceed:
- Step 1: Prepare documents in your country
- Check whether they need to be apostilled. Contact the Brazilian consulate in your country to clarify
requirements.
- Ensure the translation is as accurate as possible so that the Brazilian sworn translator can work with
understandable text.
- Step 2: Upon arrival in Brazil
- Find a sworn translator (Tradutor Juramentado) in your state. These professionals are
authorized to translate documents that are recognized as official in Brazil.
- Have a document translated in Brazil. Sworn translators are registered with the commercial councils (Juntas
Comerciais) and their services can be found through these institutions.
- Step 3: Notarization in Brazil (if required). Have the translated document notarized by a
notary
(Cartório). This is required for a number of official processes. Cartório* in
Brazil is an official notary body where various legal and administrative services are provided. These institutions
are essential for the validation, registration and certification of legal documents.
Roles and functions of Cartório
- Civil registration (Cartório de Registro Civil). This includes registration of births,
marriages, divorces and deaths.
- Notary Services (Cartório de Notas):
- Authorization of signatures on documents.
- Confirmation of copies of documents (autenticação).
- Drafting official documents such as powers of attorney and contracts.
- Property registration (Cartório de Registro de Imóveis). Recording of
transactions
related to real estate, such as buying and selling.
- Debt protests (Cartório de Protesto). Used to formalize and publish debt protests.
Why is Cartório important for translated documents?
In Brazil, a translated document (especially by a sworn translator) often needs to be certified by Cartório to
prove its validity. The notary verifies that the document meets the requirements and certifies that it is official.
The process of certifying the translated document:
- Document Translation. The document is translated by a sworn translator registered with the
relevant commercial council (Junta Comercial).
- Visit Cartório. The original document is presented. The translated document is checked and
notarized.
- Receipt of a certified copy. The certified document can be used for filing with government
agencies or for any official needs.
Frequently Asked Questions:
- Do all documents need to be authorized by Cartório?
No, only those that require official
recognition.
- Can Cartório certify documents translated outside of Brazil?
Normally, such
translations will not be accepted unless they are done by a Brazilian sworn translator.
- Where are Cartório?
There are Cartório in almost every city and neighborhood in
Brazil, and they are categorized by different types of services.
- How do I find a sworn interpreter in Brazil?
Sworn interpreters (Tradutores Juramentados) are registered with government agencies such as each state's
Junta Comercial (Board of Trade). To find an interpreter:
- Visit your state's Junta Comercial For example, Junta Comercial do Estado de São Paulo
(Jucesp) or Rio de Janeiro (Jucerja).
- Use the official list of translators available on the website.
- Some states have language and specialty searches available.
- Companies like BabyInBrazil can offer proven sworn interpreters and save you time
5. What is an apostille, and how do I get one?
A Hague Convention Apostille is an international certification of documents to authenticate their
authenticity in Hague Convention countries, including Brazil.
How to do an apostille:
- In your country, contact an authorized body (e.g. notary services or the Ministry of Justice).
- Make sure that the document is certified correctly. An apostille confirms the authenticity of the signature and
seal, but does not replace the translation.
Example:
A birth certificate issued in your country must be apostilled before use in Brazil.
- How much does it cost to translate documents in Brazil?
The cost of translation varies
depending on:
- State of Brazil (rates are governed by local laws).
- The amount of text and complexity of the document.
Example prices:
- Birth or marriage certificate: 100 to 200 Brazilian reais.
- More complex documents (legal or technical): R$200-400.
Tip:
Request preliminary cost estimates. Most interpreters provide quotes before starting
work.
6. Do Brazilian authorities accept remittances from other countries?
No, Brazilian government agencies require translations done only by Brazilian sworn translators.
Even an apostilled document translated abroad will not be recognized without a corresponding translation in Brazil.
Exceptions:
Some private institutions (e.g. universities) may accept translations done
abroad,
but this is rare.
7. Where to have a document certified in Brazil?
The documents are certified by the Cartório de Notas (notary public). These include:
- Authorization of signatures.
- Copy authentication (autenticação).
- Notarized proof of translated documents.
Process:
- Find the nearest Cartório through Google Maps or government services websites.
- Submit the original and a translation of the document.
- Pay for the service (usually R$10-30 per attestation).
If you have any doubts or need help with the translation and certification process, contact professionals like
BabyInBrazil who can help prepare documents quickly and correctly for use in Brazil.
8. Which documents need to be apostilled for Brazil?
Apostilization is the process of legalizing documents for use in other countries, including Brazil. In order for
documents to be legally valid in Brazil, they must be apostilled.
Familiarize yourself with the list of basic documents that usually require apostilization:
- Birth certificates. Required for newborn registration and other legal procedures.
- Marriage certificates. Required to confirm marital status, especially for registering children
or
for visa applications.
- Death certificates. Necessary for inheritance cases and other legal processes.
- Education documents. and certificates, especially if you plan to study or work in Brazil.
- Sometimes passport apostilization is required to confirm identity.
- Copies of notarized documents. All notarized documents such as wills or agreements may require
apostilization.
- Business-related documents. Articles of incorporation, licenses and other corporate papers if
you
plan to do business in Brazil.
Do I have to translate all documents when moving?
When moving to Brazil, document translation
may be necessary depending on the type of document and its purpose.
These are the main points to keep in mind:
- Types of documents requiring translation
- Legal Documents. Birth, marriage, death and other notarized documents usually require
translation
into Portuguese.
- Educational documents. Diplomas and certificates, if you plan to study or work in Brazil, must
also be translated and possibly apostilled.
- Documents for immigration. All documents related to visas and immigration procedures must be
translated.
- Need for notarization. Translations of documents often require notarization to confirm their
authenticity and conformity with the original.
- Professional translation services. It is recommended to use professional translators who are
experienced in working with legal documents and are familiar with Brazilian law.
- Documents that may not require translation. Personal documents such as photographs or some
financial documents may not require translation, but this depends on the specific situation.
Translating documents when moving to Brazil is often a necessary step, especially for legal and educational
documents. Make sure you are familiar with the requirements for specific documents to avoid problems in the future.
How long is an apostille valid in Brazil?
An apostille in Brazil does not have a set expiration date, as is the case with some other
documents. Nevertheless, these are a few important points to keep in mind:
- Permanent validity. An apostille remains valid as long as the conditions under which it was
issued do not change. This means that the apostille itself has no statute of limitations.
- Changes in documents. If the original document that has been apostilled is altered (e.g. in
case
of its revocation or change of content), the apostille becomes invalid.
- Document requirements. Some institutions or organizations may set their own requirements for
the
time limits for the submission of apostilled documents. Therefore, it is better to check with the specific
authority
accepting the documents.
- It is recommended to check the relevance and requirements of documents before using them, especially if
considerable time has elapsed since the apostille was obtained.
In Brazil, an apostille has no set validity period, but its validity may depend on the condition of the original
document. It is always a good idea to check the requirements with the relevant authorities.
Can Cartórios certify foreign translations?
Cartórios in
Brazil
are notary offices that provide a variety of legal services, including document attestation.
Key points
regarding
the certification of foreign translations:
- Certification of translations. Cartórios can certify translations of documents, but to
do
so, the translation must be done by a professional translator who has the appropriate accreditation.
- Requirements for translators. Translations must be done by sworn translators
(tradutores juramentados) who are registered with the relevant authorities. Only such translations are
recognized as legally valid.
- Certification Process. Once the translation is done by a sworn translator, Cartório can
certify the translation, confirming that it matches the original document.
- Additional Services. Cartórios can also provide document legalization services,
including
apostilization, if it is necessary to use the document abroad.
Yes, Cartórios can certify foreign translations, but only if they are done by sworn translators. It is
recommended to check in advance with the specific Cartório for all requirements and procedures.
How long does it take to receive a certified translation?
The time it takes to receive a
certified translation can vary depending on several factors.
These are the main points to keep in mind:
- Complexity of the document. Simple documents (e.g. birth certificates) can be translated faster
than complex legal documents or documents with technical terminology.
- The interpreter's workload. If the interpreter is busy, this may increase the waiting time.
Usually, if there is free time, a translation can take 1 to 3 working days.
- Type of translation. Sworn translations (juramentados) may take longer because they require
additional verification and certification.
- Cartório certification process. Certifying in Cartório can take from 1 to
5
working days, depending on the workload of the institution and the procedures required.
- Need for additional documents. If additional documents or information are required for the
certification, this may also increase the total time.
On average, it can take between 2 and 7 working days to receive a certified translation in Brazil.
It is recommended to discuss the timeframe with the translator and Cartório in advance for a more accurate
estimate.
Tips for saving time:
- Consult lawyers or specialized companies. BabyInBrazil, for example, offers services to support
the preparation and translation of documents. We help with finding sworn translators and explain all the nuances.
- Use online services to find sworn interpreters. Many are available nationwide and working with
them speeds up the process.
If you are having difficulties, BabyInBrazil can assist you in organizing the translation,
certification and apostille of documents.
Contact us on WhatsApp and we will help you organize all the necessary translations and attestations for your
documents quickly and hassle-free.
How do we help?
- Verification of required documents:
- We will compile for you a list of documents required depending on your country of departure and Brazilian
requirements.
- Provide advice on specific nuances, such as the need to notarize documents.
- Visa processing:
- We help with filling out the application form and collecting the required documents.
- We accompany the visa application process.
- Translations and attestations:
- We prepare legally correct translations of documents.
- Collaborate with notaries and translators to save you time.
- Medical certificates and insurance:
- Advise on the types of insurance needed to cover the costs of childbirth.
- Verify that your medical certificate meets international requirements.
- Customs nuances:
- We tell you what documents may be requested at the border.
- Provide instructions on how to declare cash or medications.
- 24/7 availability:
- We are on call to answer any questions prior to your checkout.
Why choose us?
- Our experts are well versed in the legal requirements of different countries and Brazil.
- Time saving. We help you avoid mistakes and speed up the preparation process.
- We understand your needs as a mom-to-be and care about your comfort.
Contact us!
Don't waste your time studying complex requirements on your own. Write to us in WhatsApp and we will help you
prepare
all documents for departure and customs clearance without unnecessary worries!
1. Preparing documents to enter Brazil
We advise and help with the paperwork required for travel:
- Visas and migration status. We help you understand what kind of visa you need (tourist,
temporary
or other).
- Translations and attestations. We cooperate with sworn translators to prepare documents
(passport, certificates and medical records).
- Explain which documents should be apostilled before traveling.
2 Legal support in choosing a maternity hospital
- Consultations on medical institutions. We help you choose a maternity hospital (public or
private) that suits your needs and budget.
- Contract with a clinic. Draw up or review the contract with the health care facility for
services
(if you choose a private maternity hospital).
3. Support in the registration process
- CPF (Cadastro de Pessoa Física). It is a key document for the execution of contracts
with
the maternity hospital. We help foreign women to obtain the CPF before or after their arrival in Brazil.
- Registration in the health care system (SUS). If you plan to give birth in a public facility,
we
will make sure you are registered in the system.
4. Medical and legal support
- Insurance advice. We help you find health insurance that covers pregnancy and childbirth in
Brazil.
- Monitoring compliance with contracts. We verify compliance with all terms and conditions of the
contract with the medical institution.
5. Postpartum support
- Organizing documents for a newborn baby. We help you register your child, get CPF, birth
certificate, passport and medical records.
- Migration counseling. We provide legal assistance if you plan to stay in Brazil.
How do BabyInBrazil's lawyers help foreign women with the paperwork to come to Brazil and get a job at a maternity
hospital?
1. Advice on legal aspects
- Determining which visa you need. We help you determine which visa is appropriate for your
situation (e.g., tourist or temporary medical). Advise you on the requirements of the Brazilian Embassy in your
country.
- Passport and Document Verification. We will make sure your documents meet the standards for
entry
and clearance in Brazil.
2. formalization of key documents
- CPF (Cadastro de Pessoa Física). CPF is a tax number required for any contract
(including
the contract with a private maternity hospital). We help you to obtain CPF remotely before arrival or immediately
after arrival.
- Translations and Apostille. Organize certified translations of your medical and civil documents
from sworn translators registered in Brazil. We assist with apostilization, if required.
3. Help with choosing a maternity hospital
- Recommendations on public and private maternity hospitals. We take into account your wishes and
budget. We provide lists of proven facilities with detailed descriptions of services.
- Drawing up contracts with a maternity hospital. Check or draw up a contract with a private
hospital so that the services meet your expectations.
4. Registration in the medical system
- Registration in the SUS (Sistema Único de Saúde). If you are planning to give
birth
in a public institution, we provide registration in the national health system.
- Selecting health insurance. We recommend insurance plans that cover health care services for
pregnant women.
5. Support and protection of interests
- Legal support in conflict situations. If there are difficulties with registration, maternity
hospital or state authorities, our lawyers represent your interests.
- Support throughout your pregnancy and birth. We stay in touch with you to help you with any
questions you may have about documentation or medical services.
Why choose BabyInBrazil?
- We have experienced lawyers who specialize in working with foreigners.
- We provide comprehensive services: from preparation of documents to organization of childbirth.
- We guarantee transparency and fulfillment of all deadlines.
- We provide a personalized approach for each client, taking into account your legal, medical,
and
household needs.
- We guarantee fast and safe paperwork so that your pregnancy and labor can be stress-free.
Contact us today for a free consultation! We can help make your experience of having a baby in
Brazil as comfortable as possible.
What documents are required to get a place in a selected maternity hospital in Brazil?
You may need the following documents to get a place in a maternity hospital (public or private) in Brazil:
Basic documents
- Passport. For foreign women: valid passport with visa (if required). If required, the passport
must be translated and certified.
- CPF (Cadastro de Pessoa Física). It is a tax number required for contracts with private
clinics and for registration in the health system (SUS).
- Medical records. Prenatal records (tests, ultrasound results, doctor's recommendations).
Medical
records confirming the course of the pregnancy.
- Insurance documents (if available). Health insurance policy or proof of insurance coverage in
Brazil.
- Additional documents (for private maternity hospitals). Contract or preliminary agreement with
the clinic. Proof of ability to pay (to pay for medical services).
How do BabyInBrazil lawyers help with this process?
- Preparation of documents before arrival
- Obtaining CPF. We organize obtaining CPF for foreign women remotely before arriving in
Brazil. This simplifies the interaction with medical institutions.
- Checking passports and translations. Check if your passport or other documents need to be
translated and notarized for admission to the maternity hospital.
- Choosing a maternity hospital and drawing up a contract
Maternity hospital
recommendations. We help you choose the right hospital for your budget and needs (private or public).
- Drafting or reviewing the contract. Our lawyers draft or review contracts with private
clinics to ensure that the terms are transparent and meet your expectations.
- Registration in the medical system (SUS)
- Help with registration. If you choose a public maternity hospital, we can help you register
with SUS. This will give you access to free medical services.
- Insurance counseling
- We select insurance plans that are appropriate to cover childbirth and related health care services.
- Support at all stages
- Our lawyers guide you through every step of your interactions with healthcare providers, helping to remove
any
barriers related to language or cultural differences.
To come to Brazil to interact with government agencies, translation and certification of documents may be required.
Let's clarify the main aspects:
- Do the documents need to be translated?
- If documents (passport, certificates, medical records, prenatal records) are submitted to official Brazilian
bodies or institutions, they must be translated into Portuguese by a certified (sworn)
translator.
- For private institutions. Private clinics and maternity hospitals may accept documents in
English or Spanish, but it is best to check their requirements in advance.
- Notarization of translations
- Certification in Brazil. Documents translated into Portuguese in another country must be
certified by a sworn translator in Brazil. Foreign notarizations are not recognized in most cases.
- If the documents are apostilled in your country (Hague Convention), it makes it easier to recognize them in
Brazil. However, once apostilled, a translation may be required in Brazil.
- Where do I go for translations and certifications?
- In Brazil, translations are only performed by certified sworn translators (Tradutor Juramentado). A list of
interpreters can be found through state government agencies such as the Junta Comercial.
- Notarization can be done at Cartório, which confirms the authenticity of the document or its
translation.
- How does BabyInBrazil help?
- Translation Preparation. We organize translations with sworn translators in Brazil to avoid
rejection of documents.
- Advice on apostille and certification. We help you understand which documents must be
apostilled and how to organize their certification in Brazil.
- Document Verification. Before traveling, we check the document package to rule out possible
problems during entry or processing.
Contact our lawyers for a free consultation about your documents and the requirements of Brazilian
institutions. We will ensure reliability and speed in preparing your visit to Brazil.
Translation of medical documents
To come to Brazil to give birth, it is important to understand the requirements for medical documents such as
medical
records and pregnancy records.
Do medical records need to be translated?
- Portuguese translation. If you plan to submit medical documents to Brazilian government
agencies
or private clinics, translation into Portuguese is recommended.
- In public institutions (e.g., SUS), medical records and charts must be understandable to local physicians,
and
official translations ensure the accuracy of information.
- Private clinics and birthing centers sometimes accept documents in English or Spanish, but to be sure, it's
best to check their requirements in advance.
- Notarization of the translation. Official recognition of a translation requires the use of a
sworn translator (Tradutor Juramentado) in Brazil. Such translations are automatically considered
certified and additional notarization is usually not required.
- The need for an apostille. If the documents were issued in another country, they must be
certified with an apostille in accordance with the Hague Convention. The apostille confirms the authenticity of
the
document for use abroad. After the apostille, the document may need to be translated in Brazil.
How to process transfers in Brazil?
- Contact certified sworn interpreters registered with your state's local Junta Comercial
(Chamber of Commerce).
- Certified translations are accepted by all official bodies and medical institutions in Brazil.
Our lawyers and counselors are here to help you:
- Organize the translation of medical documents with sworn interpreters in Brazil.
- Check which documents require apostille and certification.
- Contact health care providers to clarify what records are required for admission to the maternity hospital.
Contact us for a free consultation to prepare your documents in advance and avoid problems when
dealing with doctors and maternity hospitals in Brazil.
Legal aid for foreign women who have given birth in Brazil
Having a child in another country involves a lot of legal issues, especially when it comes to citizenship,
passports
and other documents.
BabyInBrazil is ready to offer professional accompaniment for foreign women giving birth in
Brazil,
so that you feel confident and relaxed about legal matters.
What kind of legal assistance can a foreigner expect?
- Paperwork for a newborn:
- Registration of the child at the Cartório de Registro Civil to obtain a birth
certificate.
- Obtaining a CPF for a child (taxpayer identification number).
- Brazilian passport processing.
- Legal advice on dual citizenship:
- Assistance in determining which countries allow dual citizenship.
- Accompaniment in applying for foreign citizenship for a child through the consulate of your country.
- Paperwork for the mother:
- Advice and assistance in obtaining a temporary or permanent residence permit based on the birth of a child
in
Brazil.
- Accompanying the citizenship application procedure after 1 year of residence (for the mother of a Brazilian
child).
- Adaptation in the Brazilian legal environment:
- Translations of documents into Portuguese with notarized certification.
- Legal advice on dealing with local authorities and institutions.
How and how can BabyInBrazil help?
- Comprehensive legal support. We take care of all stages of the paperwork so that you can focus
on
motherhood.
- Counseling in your own language. Our experts speak your language, making it easier to
communicate
and understand the legal aspects.
- Prompt work with documents. Registration of a child in a short time. Collection of all
necessary
documents for obtaining a residence permit and citizenship.
- If you are unable to attend government offices in person, we can represent you.
- Additional Services:
- Preparation of necessary translations and certifications.
- Organization of notary support.
- Assist with medical records (SUS and immunizations).
Why choose us?
- We have been working with foreign women in Brazil for many years and know the ins and outs of local law.
- We will explain every step of the process and provide a clear plan of action.
- We understand how important it is for moms to be confident in every step and are here to support you 24/7.
Contact us!
If you are looking for reliable legal support when having a child in Brazil, call or WhatsApp us! We will provide a
free consultation to help you sort out the paperwork and provide peace of mind during such an important period.
First of all, you can contact our company BabyinBrazil, and we are always, gladly, ready to help you with all your
questions related to childbirth and legalization in Brazil.
In addition, a foreign woman in Brazil can expect the following legal assistance with her and her newborn's
paperwork:
1. Consular assistance
- Your country's consulate/embassy. Your main source of information and support. You can ask for
help with birth registration, obtaining documents and clarifying procedures.
- Information about required documents. The consulate will provide a list of documents for child
registration and other documents.
2. legal advisors
- Legalization of documents. A legal consultant will assist with the process of legalizing or
obtaining an apostille for Brazilian documents.
- Certified translator services for official translations of documents into Russian.
3. Legal aid services
If you have tried to do the paperwork yourself and you are unsuccessful, there are two options: contact us at
BabyinBrazil on WhatsApp (contact number) or in some cases you can contact local organizations providing legal
services to foreigners who can assist with the paperwork.
For women in labor who contact us, our lawyer will offer assistance after the birth of their child.
4. Notaries
For some documents, notary assistance will be required for notarization. A notary can authenticate signatures on
applications and other documents. Our company BabyinBrazil can provide you with a notary immediately.
5. Lawyers
If during your self-documentation process you have difficulties with the paperwork, such as legal questions on
status, rights and obligations, you can also contact current Brazilian lawyers, or a BabyinBrazil lawyer.
Our recommendations additionally
- Gather information in advance. Take care of documents and counseling in advance to avoid
delays.
Call us on WhatsApp at .... and we will help you sort out all the necessary documents. This consultation is free
of
charge and does not oblige you to anything.
- Check the conditions. If you choose to give birth in a location other than
Florianópolis,
conditions and procedures may vary depending on the region of Brazil, so it is important to get up-to-date
information.
Do not hesitate to contact us or the consulate or local experts for assistance. This will help to avoid problems
and
speed up the paperwork process.
Our company
Our company BabyinBrazil helps foreign birth mothers in Brazil, so we provide the following amount of legal
assistance:
- Advice on legalization. Informing about the process of registering the birth of a child in
Brazil and the necessary documents.
- Document preparation. Assistance in collecting and preparing all necessary documents for birth
registration (birth certificates, medical documents, etc.).
- Assistance in communicating with state authorities. Assistance in submitting documents to the
registrar's office and other state bodies necessary for the execution of documents.
- Translations and notarization services. Organization of translation services, including for
translation of documents, as well as notarization, if required.
- Oral and written counseling. Answers to legal questions regarding the rights of mothers and
children in Brazil, including citizenship and visa status.
- Support in difficult situations. Advice and support in case of legal difficulties.
- Additional Services. Information about health facilities needed for pregnancy and childbirth
and
other aspects of life in Brazil.
It is important to know that our company has qualified professionals who understand the local laws and can
provide a high level of service.
In addition, our company provides a number of additional services, such as meeting at the airport, assistance in
choosing a maternity hospital, accommodation and meals for the support group and much more, which you can read about
on our website or contact us on WhatsApp at ......
Contact us without hesitation, right now, and you'll get an expert response from our consultants right away.
And all our consultations are free of charge and do not oblige you to anything. You can also continue your search
elsewhere.
Be sure to clarify all working conditions to avoid misunderstandings!